NUMB MATRIX

What is the biblical meaning of work? Is your 9–5 job something to escape, or could it be one of the primary places where God forms you?

In Episode 2 of Visionary Huddle, Lucas Cecilio continues the conversation on the theology of work, Christian purpose, vocation, calling, worship, and discipleship. This episode challenges the modern idea that the “matrix” is simply a job, a 9–5 schedule, or hard work itself. The real matrix is numbness: living unaware that God is present in your ordinary life, your daily responsibilities, your career, your workplace, and the work of your hands.

In this episode, you will learn:

• What theology is and why every Christian should care about it.
• Why Genesis 2:15 connects work, worship, service, and vocation.
• How to begin seeing your work as a place of worship, service, love, formation, and mission.

If you have ever wrestled with purpose, vocational clarity, calling, faith and work, or how your everyday job connects to God’s design, this episode is for you.

More resources, transcripts, and ways to connect: www.visionaryhuddle.com
Follow the Visionary Huddle on Instagram: @visionaryhuddle
Follow Lucas on Instagram: @lucascecilio1

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

The matrix is not the job. People are thinking that the matrix is 9 to 5. The matrix is the hard work. That's not the matrix. The matrix is the numbness. The matrix is to not be aware that God is all around us, giving us opportunity to love on people through the work of our minds, our hands. To be numb, that is the matrix that we have to escape. The framework of how we do our jobs, if 9 to 5, if 8 to 5, it doesn't matter. That's not a matrix to escape.

unknown 0:32

We need rhythms that matters.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

Wherever you are in the world, it is a great day to be in the Lord's house. And here's the reality, though. God wears creation like one wears a jacket. All of creation is his very vestment. God is good. I'm excited. We are in Portland, Oregon. It's a good day. We are excited. We just actually recorded one episode and we are excited. We are doing another one on the same day. We are legit. I got my cup of coffee in my hand that I'm not gonna tell you where that coffee is from. I'm gonna let you guess because if I say it, they better pay me something. Anyways, a good day. I have Tae with me. Good friend is going to be throwing some great questions in the Marcus you're producing. Uh please buckle up. Let's do it, man. Let's do it. You know what?

SPEAKER_01 1:58

I want to get right into it. Uh, I loved to I I thought that first episode, I mean, there was a lot that was running through my mind. There's some there is a specific phrase that you had mentioned, and I really want to hear you unpack that. Okay. You had kind of began to talk about this that you you had mentioned that you had heard this seminar, and they started talking about the theology of work, and that phrasing to me is just really interesting. So uh one, I I think it's probably important. You know, my my mind is sparked with what what is theology? Like, I I really want you to define that. And then my the practical side of me starts running, and I'm curious. I'm like, how you are someone who you mentioned, you you go to Western seminary and you're a pastor and also an entrepreneur, but like, how important is theology for the everyday person?

SPEAKER_00 2:59

You guys want to know a crazy story? This is a crazy story. Uh, I wasn't even planning on sharing this story, but you asked the way the US triggered my memory. I remember back in 2014, uh, I went to to India on a mission trip in December of 2014, had a great time. Uh Mumbai, New Delhi, Varanasi, great time in India. Uh, and on the way back, I remember my I have I remember I had a conversation with my senior pastor. Shout out to Pastor Samuel de Souza, Father Zal's Community Church in Arasatuba, Brazil. That's my hometown. Okay, okay. I remember he he he like he told me, Lucas, go on this trip praying. I was at that time trying to understand if the Lord wanted me to move to Portland. One of my good friends went to Portland Bible college and got his undergrad in theology. So I really wanted to study theology. At 17 years old, I was at a summer camp. I felt the Lord telling me that I would be a preacher. So I had a deep appreciation for theology from the beginning. I'm gonna explain what that is. Uh I grew up before going to Pastor Samuel's church, with which was a non-denominational church. I was a part of a Baptist church, was a charismatic Baptist. I mean, like, you know, that's a crazy thing. It was a charismatic Baptist church, a part of a big renewal that happened in Brazil amongst a bunch of different Baptist churches. Uh, and they had a seminary at uh uh the Baptist church that I used to go to with my parents. So I had that in the back of my mind as a kid, as a middle schooler, as a high schooler. I moved to a non-denominational church, which Pastor Samuel is the senior pastor. Uh, his son went to Portland Bible College, a good friend of mine, wanted to go to Portland Bible College. I go to India, but on the trip, Pastor Samuel told me, Lucas, go praying. Because what if the Lord confirms to you in this trip? And that was exactly what happened. I have a picture on my phone. I wish I could show that to you guys, but I have a picture on my phone, December 29th, 2014. We were in London. I was in the London eye, staring at the river. I don't know where them, like I don't remember the name of the river, Tem is a river, I don't remember. And I have I took a picture because of the moment to register the moment that I felt the Lord speaking to me. Uh, you were going to Portland Bible College, and don't worry about the financial doors, I'm gonna open up, it's gonna work out. How did you know that was the Lord, Lucas? Well, because it happened. I'm in Portland right now, yeah. It happened, right? So eight months later, yeah, uh, I think it was August 17th of 2015. I was moving to Portland, Oregon, for to get my undergrad in theology. Why do I say all of this? Because, and it touches back in what we were talking about on episode one. I remember vividly my friends, I mean, good friends, I'm not saying acquaintances, I'm saying friends that I am still friends with, despite the thousands of miles away. Friends that I was this morning talking to, uh, friends of mine that would ask me, Lucas, you're gonna get a theology degree. What are you gonna do when you come back? What are you gonna work with? Theology doesn't make money. How are you gonna make money with the like? How are you gonna what you should get a degree that will translate into more money? So that was see the problem right there. And here's the here's the here's a fascinating thing. Number one, it points to the the division between the realms, right? The spiritual, the natural. It's like theology. What it's this philosophical, what what what does that even mean? Gonna learn more about the Bible. What are you gonna work with? Here's but here's what is also fascinating. I don't know if you guys know this, but Harvard started as a theology university, as a theology institution, I believe in 1636, if I if I remember if I'm remembering correctly, it started as a theological institution to train Puritan ministers. It started with the goal of training ministers. We are talking about Harvard. Harvard, it's an Ivy League, one of the most prestigious universities in the planet. 1636 starting to, and somebody fact-check me, is that right? That's right. There we go. Look at that. My memory is good. 1636 to train Puritan ministers. Did you guys know that theology was considered the mother of all sciences? The mother of all science. Why did that change? Oh, per I I I would propose that one of the reasons is because the way that we see science changed. The way that we it's almost it's it there is this disconnection between this philosophical realm and what can be tested in a lab. We can get to that later, but the reality is that's a whole thing right there. Yeah, it is. The reality is you ask, what is theology? Well, the word itself, theology, theos, God, theo, God, logi, it's the study. So theology is the study of God. How do we study God through the scriptures? So theology is the study of God through scriptures. One thing that is important that I think is important to mention is this one of the first things that one learns in a theology school is that there's no way to know God unless through revelation. What is revelation? Revelation is when God himself removes the curtain of himself. It's like he's hidden from the natural eyes. He needs to remove the curtain so we can take a peek, so we can see. If unless he reveals himself, we're not gonna be able to see him, we're not gonna be able to perceive him. That's one of the first things that we learn in theology. There are two primary ways that God reveals himself. Number one, the general revelation. I'm gonna get to that in a minute. Number two, the specific or the special revelation. What is a general revelation? Is God revealing himself in things such as nature? Like we have the privilege of being one hour away from Mount Hood and about an hour away from the coast. The Oregon Coast is beautiful, freezing cold, right? Every time I go surfing, dude, my bro, no joke. My my it's frustrating. My wetsuit is four and a half millimeters. It's thick, but it's gorgeous. And Mount Hood is equally gorgeous. Watching a sunset from Mount Hood is all of this world. It's very difficult to not think about if you if you sit there long enough and watch the sunset, it's difficult to not think on something that is beyond yourself. We cannot get to Jesus by observing that sunset, but we can get to the to the grandiose, to this magnificency of something that created it, however, designed that map. It's not specific enough, but he will get your heart pulsating in a different way. That is a general revelation. Uh, there are other kinds, but let's I'm gonna stick to that one as one of the main ones on the general on the on the general side. On the specific side, on the specific side, you have Hebrews chapter one says this in the past. God spoke many times through the fathers, but in this time, this this time right now, the time has come that he has revealed himself, he spoke to us through the son, the son being the ultimate revelation of God. You want to know who a God looks like? Look at Jesus. Yes. Now, what did Jesus say? Look at Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, because his apostles wrote that. You have you have apostles that that wrote those four gospels. You go from Romans all the way to perhaps Hebrews. You have Paul writing, there is a debate if Paul wrote Hebrews, but that's a different conversation. You have these 13 epistles, these letters written by all of these guys, and you have 27 total books in the New Testament where it's the what did Jesus say? Let's explain what he said in a way that can be applicable to the churches that are being planted. My point is that because of what Jesus said, He brought in the words of the He brought in the words of the fathers of the faith in the Old Testament and the Fathers in the New Testament, reinterpreting it or maximizing, building upon is completely and totally inspired by the Spirit. They wrote something that is 100% the word of God, and through the word, Old and New Testament, his revelation is established and for lack of a better word, and revealed. So theology is the study of God, and we can study because he has revealed himself in a way that now we have this book, 39 chapters in the uh 39 books in the in the in the old testament, 27 books in the new testament. We have the 66 library, that's what the word Bible means, library. We have this library that we get to understand, we get to know, we get to see what God or who God really is through theology. That's what theology is in a nutshell. Now, here's what is important. Harvard started as a theology school. Yeah, here's my point, and I'm gonna throw right back at you because I'm that there are I'm looking at your face. I think there are things there that you want to throw my way. So let me just say this theology, because theology is the study of God, every serious Christian, every serious devoted allegiance, as my pastor would say, follower of Jesus Christ should very much care about it. And now I'm throwing at you. I was about to keep going, but I'm throwing at you.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

Okay, hold your thought. No, no, my thought is here. Uh that I got some questions. Oh boy, oh boy, here he comes. It would be there's a verse I have tattooed on me. Right. That's how important it is to me. Okay, okay, okay. Psalms 19. I love it. Okay. The heavens declare the word of the man. So I'm gonna read 14 verses. Okay, that's it. Real quick. Okay. I don't want to speed through it, but just hear what hear this. I just think it's beautiful. The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky above proclaims his handiwork. Day to day pours out speech, and night to night reveals knowledge. Ah, look at that. See? There there is no speech, nor are there words whose voice is not heard. Their voice goes out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them he has set a tent for the sun, which comes out like a bridegroom leaving his chamber, and like a strong man runs its course with joy. Its rising is from the end of the heavens, and its circuit to the end of them, and there is nothing hidden from its heat. The law of the Lord is perfect, reviving the soul. The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple. The precepts of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart, the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes. The fear of the Lord is clean, enduring forever. The rules of the Lord are true and righteous altogether. More to be desired are they than gold, even much, even much fine gold, sweeter also than honey and drippings of the honeycomb. Moreover, by them is your servant warned. In keeping them, there is great reward. Who can discern his errors? Declare me innocent from hidden faults, keep back your servant also from presumptuous sins, let them not have dominion over me. Then I shall be blameless and innocent of great transgression. Last verse, let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in your sight, O Lord, my rock and my redeemer.

SPEAKER_00 15:17

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 15:18

I want to hear. Oh man. I want to hear. I have many thoughts. I want to one, I mean, a beautiful verse. But when you're talking about God revealing himself, when you're talking about uh talking about the Bibles is the library, yeah, and and theology is is not meant to be something for the reserved elite, you know? Yeah, it is it is to be lived, it is to be, it is to be, it is for anyone.

SPEAKER_00 15:53

It is.

SPEAKER_01 15:54

It is it's as if it's part of our nature. Yeah. I I I I've got to hear you go deeper. I've got to hear you kind of paint paint out either what that looks like, what can be birthed out of that, what um, what happens when when it's done with excellence, what happens when it's done unintentionally. You know, I'd love to hear you kind of flesh this idea out.

SPEAKER_00 16:19

I have so many ideas, and here's the thing. I'm unafraid of saying I'm unafraid of saying them because my podcast, anyways, I'll say whatever I want to say. Check this out. Uh, actually commenting on the on the text that you just read, you guys realized both revelations popping up. One of them, the general revelation, it starts with the general. The heavens are proclaiming without language, without speech, in other words, it's not clear. The ideas are not perfectly organized in a super intelligent way that you are able to be like, aha, that's exactly what you are speaking. Although it is, it is speaking. There is a it's not an organized language, but there is a bobbling, if that makes sense. There is a direction that the skies are pointing to you. That's general revelation. But also, a few verses down, I don't know if it was verse 11 or 12, or you know, a few verses down, it says that the command of the Lord or the commandment of the Lord uh enlightens the eye. Yes. Here's what is fascinating. What's the very first thing that God speaks according to scriptures? The very first thing, I'm not saying it's the very first thing that he ever spoke because of course he spoke before, because he's always he always was, he always has been, always will be. Uh, but in the scriptures, in Genesis 1.3, the first thing that God ever says in the scriptures is, let there be light. Let there be light, and there was light. Where was the light coming from? It was not coming from the sun because the sun was created later, it was coming from himself. That is an act of that is the first, that is the Genesis 1.3 is the first act of revelation of God. Is God for the first time unveiling himself so all creations see his light shining? Where was the light coming from? It was coming from himself. Paul, the apostle Paul, later on in the New Testament, he goes on to say that the God that spoke, let there be light, now he shines in our hearts through the revelation of the gospel. So the same guy, like the same God that's shone in the universe, in every corner, every facet of the universe for the creation of it or the revealing of it, he also speaks light when he when the gospel is proclaimed, when Jesus Christ is proclaimed, our very eyes open up. It's almost like the darkness, not almost, it is like the darkness in our hearts now has light because the gospel is shining. How is that connected to the commandment of the Lord and lightness of the eye? What is uh what is the reason for light? What two things the light uh uh two byproducts of light. Number one, vision, number two, life. Without light, vision is impossible. Why? Because the way that our brains process images is through light, is the light that that that shines on an object and it bounces back into our eyes, and now we are able to see, not because of our eyes primarily, but because of the light primarily. If there was no light, the human eyes would never have we wouldn't need eyes. Light it just said a thought. Wow, in Revelation 4, there's this picture of the throne of God, and in this picture of the throne of God, there's these four living creatures, and the Bible says they have eyes. I mean their entire bodies are covered with eyes. Why? Well, one of the reasons at least is because it's to it's one of the reasons is not to point at the eyes, but to point at the light. Because we only have eyes because there is light to bounce back. The four living creatures only had eyes because they are standing in front of the one who is spiritual light, therefore, all of their bodies must be eyes. Number one, vision, number two, life. Without light, there is no life. So here's my point, and now your question theology matters. Theology matters because if theology is a study of God, and it is, and every full-on, full-hearted, devoted follower of Jesus Christ actually is fully devoted to Jesus Christ, then they care and must care about understanding actually what he's saying through the commandment, because it is the commandment of the Lord who enlightens the eye. Without understanding the commandment of the Lord, how can my eyes be opened? So if I'm a plumber and uh I'm a son of God and I care about God, theology matters to me because it helps me understand the commandment of the God whom I love. And in understanding that commandment of the God whom I love, my eyes are enlightened. And now I can see who my God is revealing himself to me through my plumbing job, to the customers that I'm serving, to the employees that I'm working with, to the employees that I'm that I'm that I'm that that I'm working for and to and paying to my co-workers. I need to know what God is revealing himself. Uh uh I need I need to understand the commitment because it is the commandment that enlightens the eye. A lot of people, dude, think about this three to five percent, only three to five percent of Christians will ever work in ministry.

SPEAKER_01 21:59

Right.

SPEAKER_00 22:00

What about the other 95%? And Jesus called every Christian to fulfill the Great Commission. How are we going to fulfill the Great Commission if we don't even understand the one who is commissioning us? And how can we understand the one that is commissioning us? Do we for a second believe that we can understand the one who is commissioning us off our own minds? If even to understand him, he must reveal himself to us. And he already chose to reveal himself to us through the scriptures that he gave us through his apostles and prophets. So how can I say that I care about my God without caring about how he revealed himself to me? How? There's no way. And never by the way, again, we need a hundred percent of Christians engaged in the Great Convention. What is the Great Convention? Go and preach the gospel to all ethnical groups, go preach the gospel to all nations, baptize, teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you, that I have showed you, that I have taught you, baptizing them, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and I will be with you to the end of the time with you forever. How can we fulfill that without understanding the one who has commissioned us? And how can we understand the one who has commissioned us without understanding the text? There's no way. So we must have this value for the text. Now, I would say something. You said you asked something on the lines of how I like how I I don't remember exactly how you phrased it, but how you see it practically, something like that. I will tell you what I see. People may call me crazy, but uh think about this. Most degrees, you go to university, you go to college, your first two years in a lot of places, a lot of the stuff that you learn is nonsense. You don't need that, you just need for the sake of you gotta get the associates, right? You gotta get it's not the specific yet, but you gotta learn some of these things. I will tell you what I think it should happen. I think that on those two years, we should learn as much theology as we possibly can. I think every single Christian, every single Christian should value theology enough to the point of study. I am not saying that everybody should try to get a bachelor's or an associate. I am just saying if you value the system and if you want to go to college, if you want to go to university, I think it would matter to take some specific Bible classes at least to train you correctly, to train you correctly, to get the manuscript that you have in your hands, open up and know how to study. You don't need to go to a four-year theology school, but you need to get enough basic doctrine in you so when you open your Bible, you are able to localize yourself. You know the full story, you know the you know, like you know what you are reading, and then you can what you then you can understand the commandment who will enlighten your soul, and you will know the one who has loved your soul and called you for this big commission. 100% should be engaged, not only three to five. So I need water now.

SPEAKER_01 25:14

The eye is the lamp of the body. So if your eye is healthy, your whole body will be full of light. But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light in you is darkness, how great is the darkness?

SPEAKER_00 25:30

How great is the darkness?

SPEAKER_01 25:32

It's pretty uh pretty great. I love that you you get I I love your passion. I really do. I I value it more than you know. And I think your passion speaks to how deep this conviction it runs in you. You know, you and I think it runs deep because you've one, you've clearly given your life, at least at the bare minimum a portion of your life, to pouring over the scriptures, to hearing it, to reading it, to digesting it, to trying to build a life with not just with it in mind, but believing that God is the one building life through you, you know? And I think it's it's creating opportunities for you. I think you're you have this passion because you're seeing the Lord through the opportunities that he's creating for you. And I I paint that picture because I think that reality that you're in is the reality that God wants anyone and everyone to be in. Is as you spend time with me, as you pour into these texts, as you ask these questions, as you wrestle, as you talk, as you learn, as you study, as you work, you will see me through your days. Yeah, I will see you will see me in a way where it's like I I am leading you to me. That's it. And what I want to hear from you there's there's a couple different ideas that's running through my mind. There's this purpose thing that that I've wrestled with in my life. I've wrestled with what is the purpose? What is the purpose of God? What is the purpose of of mankind? What is the purpose of civilization? What what is why am I thinking the way that I'm thinking? Why do I have the desires that I have? Why am I and it's as if as I work my my day-to-day job, yeah, I I feel like there's slowly answers. Yeah. Does that make sense? Yeah. And I what I need to hear from you, I I because I'm done talking on my side. I need to hear one, how does this theology of work, since we're using this term, how does this play into purpose? Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 28:15

Yeah, so here's the thing. Uh, I remember Pastor Samuel, who is my pastor in Brazil, Pastor Jazz Truckler is my pastor in the US. Uh, had the privilege of connecting both of them. Pastor Jazz, right now, as we speak, is in Brazil right now with Pastor Samuel, which is fascinating. It's cool. Very cool. Pastor Samuel was here the first week of October, and he spoke at our church. I had the honor of translating, interpreting him from Portuguese to English. And he preached on Sunday morning here, A Living Hope, on enthusiasm. And uh I didn't know this, but it was fascinating because you mentioned passion about me, and I appreciate that. I hear that a lot. Passion and enthusiasm. Very enthusiastic person. You guys know what enthusiasm means? Enthusiasm, the it's it means it literally means in Greek uh filled with God. And it's it's enthial, and anti is something like that. It's a teal, it's from theology. Enthusiasm is to be filled with God, it's the breath of you're filled with God. Here's the thing: every Christian, if you are truly a follower of Jesus, you are filled with the breath of God, with which is the Spirit of God. Therefore, you should have to be enthusiastic. And to be enthusiastic is to be filled with God. How can we, and again, how can we be filled with God without being filled with enthusiastic to know about this God that we have inside? In other words, I don't think we can be a follower of Jesus without truly loving and being enthusiastic about his commandments. You talked about theology of work. I think the person who is filled with the spirit will be filled with enthusiasm for their job. I think, I think, I think when we are not filled with enthusiasm for our jobs, but we are filled with God, God might be doing something there, he might be changing a direction, he might be whatever it is. But regardless, we are filled with God for the people around us, and we want to serve them to the best of our ability. Let me touch on one thing really quick before perhaps we might be getting to an end, or we I this is so broad. I will just touch on it. We can have a third episode to continue this. But here's the thing: we were made to worship God, right? We were made to worship Him, and there are different ways that the Bible talks about worship. There are multiple words. I'm thinking right now on the word Baruch, for example. We have Baruch Hababeshemadonai. I'm sorry, I'm I'm sure I'm I'm trying to pronounce to the best of my ability, but um the Hebrew accent's not there. Baruchaba, blessed is he who comes in in the name of the Lord. Baruch is a word that can be translated to worship, it can also be translated as blah, as to bless, right? To blessed be the name of the Lord is a word used for worship. There's another word that is used for bowing down, to getting on your knees, is a word for reverence. Uh, but there's another word who is the with uh with the word abda that is translated, it can be translated as worship, it can also be translated as minister or ministry. I think it's actually abda is a verb, so it will be to minister or to worship, to serve or to work. There's a principle that's called the first mentioned principle. The first uh the first mentioned principle in theology basically states that uh in order to understand a theme in the Bible that repeats itself over and over and over again, go back to the first time that that principle is introduced, and understand how that principle is introduced in order to understand subsequently. So uh you want to understand what sin is, go to the first time mankind's sin. You want to understand redemption, go to the first time of redemption, so forth and so on. Now, here's my question: what was the first when was worship introduced in the Bible? When was even the word worship introduced in the Bible? Genesis 2.15. It's the word Abdah, but it's not translated as worship, it is translated as work, and there is something there. Do you really want to understand what worship is? And by the way, this is a punch in our culture because I'm deeply charismatic. I love worship music. I was listening, I mean, uh, what's his name? Aidan King, and I forgot the name of the girl from the upper room. They just released an album. Absolutely fascinating. I've been listening to you every day since I mean for the past three days. I've been listening all the time. Yes, I love worship music. I love praising. I love that's a part of my lifestyle. But if I think that worship is praising only, I'm missing out. Uh, it's I mean, that's that's one inch deep. It's like it's not deep at all. The first time that the word worship pops up in scripture has nothing to do with praise, it has everything to do with work. Genesis 2 15 says, and God planted man in the garden to work it, Abdah, and watch over it. I forgot the Hebrew word for watch over it, but work that's abda, can be translated as to minister, to serve, to work, or to worship. It was a wording that was used for priests, like a priest in the tabernacle or in the temple is serving the Lord, ministering before the Lord. They are practicing the Abdah, that is the verbiage of, in other words, why does theology of work matters? Because a theology of work is a theology of worship. A theology of work is a theology of worship. If we diminish the theology of worship to a theology of praise, that is not a theology of worship. It is a theology of praise, but it is not a theology of worship. A theology of worship involves work. In fact, it is the first time it is introduced in the scriptures. So, why does a theology understand a theology of work? It is because 95% of us are in the marketplace, but we cannot be Christians in the marketplace, disassociated from the understanding of scriptures. Why? Because our very worship, it's not connected to you primarily working for the church, preaching or singing on a stage, it is connected to the work of your hands as a plumber, as an electrician, as a software engineer, as an AI prompter, as whatever you are, as whatever you do, as a barista. It doesn't matter what you do, you can be, you can be like you are driving Uber. You are doing all for the glory of God as a priest who is. I don't know if it was on this episode or on the other or or on the first one that I started by saying that God wears the wears creation as a jacket. Dude, the whole creation is his temple, and we live in his temple as priest who is ministering before the Lord through our careers. Wow, that's why a theology of work matters deeply because it is a theology of all of us, is how we minister before the Lord 40 hours a week. Wow. Think about it. 60% at least of our awakened times is spent at work from 18 years old through 67, the age of retirement, I believe, with full benefits in the United States. We are at work. So imagine, think about this. Imagine if we think how how often, how often, dude, I thought about this for years, for years. I've I had the mistake of understanding discipleship, and some as like I'm going, I'm I'm getting coffee with somebody, I'm getting good advice, I'm reading my Bible, I'm being trained how to pray. I'm in a small group. Do you realize that these activities is a small percentage of our time? Yes. So if discipleship is just that, no wonder most people are not walking in maturity in Christ. No wonder, because that's not even 10% of their lives. That's much less than that. It's not enough time. You spend two what, two hours at the church, you may serve once a month. Uh, and this is all great stuff, and all part of discipleship. Uh uh, you might go to a small group and you should go to a small group, very hard to grow without a small group, perhaps impossible. Uh, you read your Bible every day, maybe 15 minutes a day or whatever. Dude, that's nothing. What about 40 hours a week that you are at work? If you don't see your job as rhythms of love in the very creation temple of Christ that is everything around us, we are missing out on formation. We must see our jobs as engaging with the very rhythms of the spirit and filling every square inch of this planet for his glory. That's the way, that's the way to do it. So that's why theology of work matters.

SPEAKER_01 37:14

It's beautiful, bro. It really is. And when you were speaking, it made me think of the it reminds me of the humanity Jesus models as he's a carpenter, you know. Like there is we we get a little time, we we see his birth, right? This divine birth. We see him at 12, he's in the temple doing some teachings, and then we really don't hear about him for like almost 20 years, and I think he was working, yes, and it's like it's as if he was being formed, he was growing, he was maturing, he was thinking, he, but it was through his work, you know. And I think what you're touching on reminds me, uh I have been a a person where I have I have struggled to see the value in work. I feel so much, I felt so much pressure to perform, I felt so much pressure to make money, I felt so much pressure to to whatever it is. And when I'm hearing you say this, uh I'm like, wow, what if there's actually a a freedom in in just working?

unknown 38:39

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 38:40

What if I'm not a slave by be what if my nine to five isn't me being a slave? You know, what if my nine to five is a divine blessing? What if it's an opportunity for God to invade my life and and do some amazing things and he's actually forming me?

unknown 39:00

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 39:01

And and I the truth is to this day, I need to hear stuff like that. Like I need to, I need to have that that I want that, I want that to be true.

SPEAKER_00 39:13

Does that make sense? Absolutely. I see, you know, I see often people being like, oh, you gotta escape the matrix, right? You're gonna escape the nine to five, right? And then you're gonna start your business and you think's gonna go up, dude. Bro, if you are a business owner, a true business owner, you gotta work way more than a nine to five, man. Like, I don't understand. Oh, for sure. Dude, this is crazy. The matrix is not a job. People are thinking that the matrix is nine to five. The matrix is the hard work, is all the that's not the matrix. The matrix is the numbness. The matrix is to not be aware that God is all around us, giving us opportunity to love on people through the work of our minds, our hands. To be numb, that is the matrix that we have to escape. The framework of how we do our jobs, if nine to five, if eight to five, it doesn't matter. That's not a matrix to escape. We need rhythms and patterns. The matrix, not the office that you gotta escape from. That's not the matrix. I think that's a demonic mindset. We are called to work, and we we're not gonna be thinking people think that in heaven or I mean in the new heavens and new earth, in new earth, we we're gonna be chilling every day. God made us work, we're gonna be working the new heavens and new earth. That's an eternal call, yeah. So, dude, I and by the way, I related that because for years of my life I didn't understand that. That's one of the reasons for this podcast. That's the main reason for this podcast. This is me as not as this expert. No, it's me as a student. I'm in seminary right now, learning about a bunch of the stuff that I'm talking about. So, this is my experience, my lab that I get to talk to all of you guys, and we get to express this very much reality. That by the way, it's not novelty. Yeah, I know that it may sound like novelty because unfortunately, there's not a lot of people talking about this. It sounds like novelty, but it's the first time that we see the word worship in the scriptures. Yes, Abda, to work, to minister, to serve, to worship. So, bro, I I I I get it. I'm right there.

SPEAKER_01 41:27

I genuinely I I think I think that between these this conversation, right, between this first episode and second episode, I really do think we've we've gotten somewhere. I really do. I think so too. And I kind of want to give the next, we'll say two to five minutes to kind of cue up another question because I had when I was listening to to you unpack this theology of work and really connecting it to really it's it's more a theology of worship, like that. I think is is beautiful. And it it kind of you had kind of alluded to it. You had said, um, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but you had said we were created with this intent to worship, this need to worship, this desire to worship. It's as if it's a part of our purpose. It's a part, it's a it's as if there's purpose behind our creation, you know. And I I would kind of love to hear you kind of again in the next couple of minutes queue up like the the purpose of God for mankind, you know, like that's the the phrasing that's running through my mind is what all right, there's like purpose that needs to be defined. God, okay. I think we're we're fleshing out what this who God is and and all these things, and then obviously mankind, what does that entail? Like we can unpack that.

SPEAKER_00 43:02

So well, as you I have a verse now. I'm just gonna say the verse, uh Ephesians 2 10. For we are his his whom God, or we gods, for we are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus, amen. For good works that he created for us before the foundation of the world. So that is answered by this verse alone. For we are God's workmanship, we are his craft, his poema in Greek that can be translated as poem. We are the song that the great songwriter of the universe has written. His workmanship created in Christ Jesus, Jesus Himself as the very shape, the mode. The structure that we are created from. We created in him for what? For good works. Not created to be sitting somewhere chilling. Created for good assignments. Created for good roles. Created for good things to do for the sake of A B C D E, etc. We can talk about that more later.

SPEAKER_01 44:30

Yeah, I think this is the I think we're at a good spot to end, Bradley.

SPEAKER_00 44:34

That's good. Let's pray. Let's pray. On you. On you. Like wherever you are in the world right now, if you are able to close your eyes, I mean if you are driving, please do not close your eyes. But please don't. Please don't. Please don't. You can park the car though. You can park the car. You can park. Unless you have a robot driving the hey, that's a crazy, that's crazy. Have some AI driving your Tesla. Tesla by on the way. Close your eyes if you can. Open your hands. Father God, thank you. Thank you for everything you were doing, Lord Jesus. I want to ask you to breathe into us the very breath of life that causes us to be enthusiastic about you because of you. About people because of you. About our jobs because of you. About our futures because of you. About our many assignments because of you. Because of your breath in us. We thank you. Praise the Him. We pray these things in Jesus' mighty name. Amen. Thank you guys for listening to today's episode. Thank you once again, Demarcus. Thank you, Tayu. I will see you guys again next time. If you have any questions, email Lucas at lucascicilia.com. We'd love to hear from you guys. Have a good one. Bye.