HUMAN MANDATE

What is the true purpose of humanity?

In this episode of Visionary Huddle, Lucas Cecilio explores the connection between the Creation Mandate in Genesis 1 and the Great Commission of Jesus — arguing that the Gospel is not merely about “going to heaven when you die,” but about the restoration of all things.

Through Romans 8, Genesis 1, and Matthew 28, this conversation unpacks themes such as purpose, calling, discipleship, vocation, stewardship, faith and work, entrepreneurship, relationships, culture, and the role of Christians in the renewal of the world.

This episode challenges the modern separation between the spiritual and the material, presenting a vision of Christianity that integrates worship, work, family, leadership, creativity, and everyday life under the Lordship of Christ.

If you’ve wrestled with questions surrounding calling, purpose, theology of work, the Kingdom of God, or what it truly means to follow Jesus in the modern world, this conversation is for you.

More resources, transcripts, and ways to connect: www.visionaryhuddle.com
Follow the Visionary Huddle on Instagram: @visionaryhuddle
Follow Lucas on Instagram: @lucascecilio1

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Because it doesn't really matter how I live my life, because at the end of the day, I'm gonna die and I'm gonna go to heaven. Except for heaven is not your destination. Right. Oh shoot, I know that some people will find me crazy. I dare you find that in the Bible, though. Right. Heaven is not our destination, we were destined for the earth. That's why I'm asking you guys to go back to Romans 8 and read it. Because there is an entire expectation of creation, expecting the sons and daughters of God to be revealed. Why? Because there's something about the children of God being revealed benefits.Anywhere in the world, wherever you are sitting down, running, I don't know, praying, and at least, hey, it's a good day. It's a good day to be in the house of God. Look at that. But you I'm not in church. I'm not in the church sanctuary. Hey, Jesus said, God said, the whole world is his temple, the whole world is his tabernacle. So wherever you are, you are in God's house. You are in his temple. Creation is his temple. He wears creation like a jacket. So it's a good day. I'm excited. We are in Beaverton, Oregon, recording at our church studio. Um here with our producer DeMarc DeMarcus Hardcastle, which is again a very cool name. I wish I had imagine Lucas Hardcastle. That's looking tough.

SPEAKER_00 2:02

You put a massive smile on my face, uh, I'm doing well, bro.

SPEAKER_01 2:06

You have some cool expressions, you have some cool things that you say. Like, like just like that. Like you put a you put what'd you say? Put a smile on my face. Smile on my face. There's another one you said on the on the on the last time we recorded. You said uh 32 years young. I don't hear people saying that. There's another one you said instead of uh long time uh long time shortest thing make a long story less long. See, I gotta start saying that. It's it's cool, it's cool. I'm excited. This is, I believe this is episode three.

SPEAKER_00 2:41

Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_01 2:42

We're gonna be talking about we're gonna be talking about many things that I'm not gonna say it now. I will say it in a minute or two. Look at that. But you read Romans eight, and I would like for you to read Romans eight, Romans eight, eighteen through twenty four. Actually, guys, pay attention to this. I think this will set the tone of today's episode.

SPEAKER_00 3:07

Yeah, for those who um care to follow along, this is the ESV translation, so Romans 8, 18 through 24. For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God, for the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it in hope, that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now, and not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, grown inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. For in this hope we were saved. Now, hope that is seen is not hope, for who hopes for what he sees.

SPEAKER_01 4:12

That's a very cool text. And I and I would say, guys, if you if you would, if you have time, uh pause the podcast right now and get your Bible, read Romans 8. You know, Romans 8. Actually, if you could read the entire chapter, that would be even better because that will give a lot of context. But with that being said, I have a question for you. Uh, what is the Great Commission about?

SPEAKER_00 4:35

Well, you're putting me on the spot.

SPEAKER_01 4:36

I am on purpose.

SPEAKER_00 4:38

I feel like you're asking me a loaded question. So I'll give the my good like VBS answer.

SPEAKER_01 4:45

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:46

The Great Commission to go and make disciples. That's what I would say. That's the short answer.

SPEAKER_01 4:53

And what does that mean?

SPEAKER_00 4:56

I would say to live and to live with people in a way to live with to live with Jesus, to live with people in a way that allows them to hopefully experience the Lord through you and hopefully brings them to a place where they themselves are living in this daily experience of the Lord. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 5:37

And I love what you said at the end. I loved everything you said, that's great. But especially that at the end, living this daily experience. Uh, I remember I think it was last episode or the first one, we're talking about this separation between the spiritual realm and the material, right? In which if we live a life that is not integrated, if we live a life thinking that we are more spiritual on Sunday morning because we are singing and listening to the word than we are on Monday morning at 9 a.m. when we are clocking in, clocking out, you know, 9 a.m., 5 p.m., clocking in, clocking out. We are less spiritual than that's a huge problem. That's one of the reasons God had to come in flesh, because he's unifying everything, he's wrapping all of creation around himself, material. It's uh heavens and earth been intertwined. I've heard somebody saying, I don't know if it was C.S. Lewis. I actually Mother Teresa says something like this too. It was like the people that were thinking the most about heaven did the most on the earth. So there's this overlapping of how uh integrated our lives meant to be. The reason I asked about uh the Great Commission, and the reason I asked you to read Romans 8, 18 through 24 before I asked about the Great Commission is because of this. Uh, we're talking about purpose today. Uh, a lot of people they see the Great Commission, right? Go and make disciples, baptize them in the name of the Father, in the name of the Son, in the name of the Holy Spirit, teach them to obey everything that uh I taught you and I did, and then I will be with you to the end of the age. Most people see the Great Commission and they think about uh preaching the gospel as in hey, God law, hey, uh uh there's sin, right? Like cities is sin is is destructive. That's the problem with our world, and there's sin. Do you believe you're selfish? Yes. Wait a minute, God loved you before you were even born, he sent Jesus. Now, if you believe, and by believe, many people have the mindset of acknowledging on this statement of truth, you believe, and then you go to heaven when you die. Therefore, the Great Commission would be to go around telling people the story, right? Except for we only understand the Great Commission that way because we disconnect the Great Commission from the original human mandate from Genesis 1. Once we reconcile the once we go back to Genesis 1 and we reconcile our understanding, our current understanding with the real understanding of what humanity is and is meant to be, that enhances the Great Commission because now we understand that Jesus, he's not just telling us to go around, it is that whole song, right? Go tell them on the mountain, hey, over the hills, you know, like we are preaching and we are sharing that Jesus loves people, except for let me ask a question. I I mean it's a rhetorical question, but what happens when we are not preaching then? Which is most of our lives if we are honest. That's when we have the problem again that we talked about on the on the first episode, I believe. Uh, some people, some people really feel called to some people are more extroverts, so it's easier for them to have a conversation with the barista. What happens to the introverts? That are hard for them to have a conversation with a stranger. Does that mean they get to not preach the gospel as much as the as the as much as the extroverts, which by the way is a huge problem. I hear that all the time from high schoolers because people are trying to figure out like, yeah, I don't know if I can start a club at school. Like I'm shy. Like, I don't know if I don't know how to approach a stranger, like I don't know how to do this. So there and and again, like he enhances the problem again. And now the devil, he really preys on this idea of us believing that the going around and being and and reflecting or showing Jesus to people has to do with us being louder and actually saying it and and and and and preaching to the most amount of people possible, except for that's and by the way, that is necessary. Don't hear me saying that this is not necessary because that would be crazy. Okay, that is necessary because uh uh I I think I don't know if it was Spurgeon, I don't want to quote him wrong, but somebody said that uh uh preach the gospel if you need to use words. Uh, I get the sentiment, but I don't know if I I don't know if I like that. Why? Because Paul says that faith comes by hearing the word, so there's no way one can be saved unless they hear the preaching of the word. So don't hear me saying that uh uh uh yeah, there's actually another way you don't need to preach. That's not what I'm saying. We all must create opportunities purposefully in our lives every day if we could, and I believe we can every day. Extroverts might be might talk to more people just because they are more outgoing, but introverts can develop intro honestly, dudes. Honestly, some of my deepest relationships are with introverts. Some of my some of my some of my deepest friendships are with people that are that don't have my personality. I'm an extrovert, yes, but dude, like I need introverts in my life. My wife, whom I have the deepest relationship on this earth with a human being, is more she's more of she's more of an ambivert, I would say, but she's definitely not as outgoing as I am. That's why we work so well. And with all of these micro-relationships, introverts can develop friendships of trust in which they can preach the gospel. So don't hear me saying you can you are not supposed to, or or you, or that's okay if you don't. That's not what I'm saying. What I am saying is that if the Great Commission is disconnected from Genesis 1, we are missing out, and we're gonna reduce the whole mission of human of cre of redeemed human beings post-Jesus to tell people how much God loves them and that's it, period. No, that is not it. Why? Because why do people need a gospel? Like that's that I think we have to I think we have to answer that question first. Like, why do people need to hear how much God loves them? Because if we don't understand why, then we're missing out. Because then that's when the great com it's almost like the commission is a great commission, right? It's a great, but it's a great commission to what? It's a great commission to preach the gospel. For what reason? So people can go to heaven when they die. Find that in the Bible and show me, right? And that is the issue. Find that in the Bible, it's not it's not there. We don't preach the gospel, we don't go around, we go like we don't tell them on the mountains, right? We don't do that for the sake of people dying and going to heaven, right? It's not a ticket to heaven, and that is the misconception. So it's a ticket to what? Number one is not a ticket. Let's start with that. Number two, what it actually is in the words of Jesus, that eternal life is not in the future, eternal life is knowing God. Yes, it that's in the words of Jesus. What is eternal life? Eternal life is to know God, and it's to know him intimately, is to have a relationship with God intimately here and now, but of course, as you read in Romans 8, it will culminate in human beings, and here's the hope of human beings in human beings receiving a brand new body. Here's why, here's why that is important. If in the preaching of the gospel, in fact, this is this is interesting. I was talking to, and I told you guys before when I when I arrived here uh this morning, I was chatting with I was chatting with a Muslim guy from New York uh a few days ago. And he was telling me, I was like, Yeah, man, like I uh I I think Christians should be more respectful of of Muslims because we are respectful to Christians. In fact, we believe in Jesus. We uh like I Mohammed quotes Jesus, Jesus is in the Quran, like we we hear we revere him as a prophet, and then he says this, and this denounces the whole thing. He says, uh, we even believe that Jesus was so good. Pay attention to this. We even believe that Jesus was so good that when he wasn't uh that that he wasn't it he wasn't on the cross because God took him out, it was like a ghost or something on the cross. Bingo, that's the problem with Islam, that's the problem of their view of Jesus. Because God so loved the world, he gave his only son to overlap with the material world because the material world, the material, the material world is good and on the and the biggest proof of love and the biggest proof that God is who he says he is is the fact that he's hanging on a cross. And I I get that is a scandal, I get that it's crazy, I get it doesn't make sense, but the Bible says the government would be upon his shoulders. I ask you, how would the government be upon the shoulders of Jesus? Well, picture him hanging, picture him carrying a cross, the government is upon his shoulders, picture him hanging on the cross, the government is upon his shoulders on the cross. He's there, and then three days later, he's raised from the dead as the first fruit of what would come. What does that mean? It means that a part of our mess, one of the biggest parts of our message is that the same way that Jesus was raised from the dead, so will every single one of his allegiance surrender followers. That is a promise. Why are we raising from the dead so we can reign with him fully alive in a body on this earth? Most people. Was like, oh, good, you're a preacher. Like, okay. And then he let me preach to him, pray for him. I don't know what else happened. That was like, I don't know, 10 years ago. But uh the reason I say that is because people, and I remember even in the conversation with him, there was something about his idea. Oh, I know I'm gonna go to heaven when I die. I know I'm gonna, in other words, it doesn't matter how I live here, God knows my heart. It's okay how I live here, it's fine. I'm gonna die soon, anyways, and I'm gonna go to heaven when I die, because I know John 3.16. That is how a lot of people, I know it's a funny story, but I mean, it's dressed. I mean, it's a sad story, actually. But I a lot of people live that way. It doesn't, I mean, I mean, I want to be a good person. Yeah, I'm gonna go to church every Easter and every Christmas, maybe once a month, and I'm gonna go to the lake or I'm gonna go to the beach every other weekend because it doesn't really matter how I live my life, because at the end of the day, I'm gonna die and I'm gonna go to heaven, except for heaven is not your destination. Right. Oh shoot, I know that some people will find me crazy. I dare you find that in the Bible, though. Right, heaven is not our destination, we were destined for the earth. That's why I'm asking you guys to go back to Romans 8 and read it because there is an entire expectation of creation, expecting the sons and daughters of God to be revealed. Why? Because there's something about the children of God being revealed that benefits the material world. I'm gonna stop there. I will throw that back at you because I can keep going.

SPEAKER_00 18:18

No, you're I can keep going. You're great. I I want to frame this a couple ways. One, I want to read just this great commission that everyone, or not that everyone that you specifically, Lucas, are referencing. Yeah. I think that would be valuable right now. And you had mentioned this word called purpose. Yeah, I really want to unpack that. And I also want to introduce another word, calling. I think that could be really valuable during this time. Okay. So let me read this real quick. This is again for anyone following. This is Matthew 28. This is what is often pre-labeled the Great Commission. It's verses 16 through 20. Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. And when they saw him, they worshiped him, but some doubted. And Jesus came and said to them, All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. And this is what's really interesting to me. Verse 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always to the end of the age.

SPEAKER_01 19:32

Here's what is funny about that verse All authority has been given to me in heaven as God and on earth as a human being. In heaven and earth, God and human beings has been given to me by the Father. Why does that matter? Because if we go back to Genesis 1, authority had been given to mankind to rule over worldly or earthly affairs. God has authority over the heavens, the heaven belongs to the Lord. Right? But then there's a psalm that talks about that. If you could find that psalm later, the the heavens belong to the Lord, but the but the earth he has given to the children of man. That is a powerful text. Because it speaks of humanity's authority over the earth. A lot of people that that struggles, maybe you are listening to us right now, and you struggle with your own, uh you struggle believing in God because primarily because of bad things happening in your life or around you. Here's the thing the problem of evil is not a problem of God, it's a problem of humanity. Yeah, but can God do everything? The earth, the the the heavens belong to the Lord, but the earth he has given to the children of man. God has delegated the authority of the earth to humans. So there are things that is like God is the ultimate owner, yes, but we are supposed to exercise good stewardship of the creation he has given us. So all the issues that we have on earth on this side of eternity has to do with mismanagement. That is a mismanagement issue. How come God cannot sort this out? You were talking nonsense, right? Like of he already did, he sent Jesus to sort things out, right? And he prepared why did Jesus took so long to appear? Because he was preparing the world to receive. Imagine if this dude, imagine if Jesus had come before the Greek Empire. What do you mean, Lucas? People would not speak Greek, the whole world was speaking Greek, like everybody speaks English these days. Like, if you don't know English, it's gotta Be very hard for you to do business uh globally speaking. The whole world was speaking Greek coin, yeah. Like, great. Now, in other words, now it's easier for the message to spread. What about if Jesus were to wait? What if Jesus was coming? Uh what if Jesus had come before the Romans? Well, we wouldn't have the Roman roads. How would the disciples, how would the missionaries take the message through without roads? So he the whole he waited the perfect timing when human history was perfectly aligned for the message to spread because he cannot wait to redeem all things. And he's patient right now, he hasn't come back because he's patient, he doesn't want people to perish. Yeah, he wants so there is a timing issue there. But God wants to sort things out, but his plan hasn't changed, he wants to sort things out through human beings. That's why when we are not like when we are, I remember when I was a kid, I would think like, wouldn't it be so much easier to give my life to Jesus and then boom, I just go to heaven. That doesn't make any sense because God wants uh God wants to restore a management capacity in our hearts so we can not so we can stop mismanaging what he has entrusted to us.

SPEAKER_00 23:13

One, love what you said. I'm gonna comment on it. Two, I found that Psalms, it's Psalms 115, specifically the portion uh 16. Yeah, the heavens are the Lord's heavens, but the earth has he has given to the children of man. Ah, yeah. Thank you for finding it. I love that phrasing uh of how you're just talking about he wants to he wants to sort things out through like through humanity. You know, and I I like it, I like the phrasing of he wants to sort sort things out with and within humanity. Yes, you know, like in in our minds and our hearts and our bodies and our souls. That's what that's really what the Holy Spirit is doing. It's bringing order to our minds, our hearts, our bodies and souls. Yes, and it's bringing us such into such an order where we can really begin to commune with the Lord. And in our communion with that Lord, in the Lord, and being brought into order, we're being prepared for that time where we we get to work and be and dwell in the place of God. Yeah, you know, like not in place of him, like in the in his dwelling place. Yes, you know, we get to inquire in his temple. So I just think what you're saying, it it really matters. I I want to ask a question because part of what I think you do so well, Lucas, is you you are communicating massive foundational theological truths, like realities. And I'm wanting you to take this massive idea and and again, I think you do this with excellence, bring it to a place where, okay, so we've heard this idea and we want to live it out. How should we live it out? You know, what is give me like a an everyday example or a way that this type of theological foundation, this paradigm shift could be lived out through our entrepreneurship endeavors, you know, our friendships, our relationships. Does that make sense what I'm asking?

SPEAKER_01 25:23

Yeah, that's a great question. That's a really that's a really great question. Uh, you know the word enthusiasm. I think I've mentioned that last episode. But I I gotta mention again. Yes. I think that is a way of assessing the river of God flowing from within our hearts into everything we do practically. Uh, enthusiasm in the Greek wording of it, it's filled with God, right? In the last. Like we are filled with God. So there is this breath of life. There is this, there is this pulsating life, there is this different energy, and I'm not talking about being energetic. I am talking about you care. Everything that we don't cultivate will die. A person that is filled with the Spirit of God has the grace to desire to cultivate things around them. They want to cultivate friendships, they want to cultivate their spouses, they want to cultivate their children, they want to cultivate their cars, they want to cultivate their bedrooms. What does that mean? The bedroom is not filthy, it's cleaned, it's organized. The car is not filthy, it's cleaned, it's organized. I was having a conversation with my wife yesterday, and uh and she and I I'm gonna be honest with you guys, she she brought up something to my attention. She was like, Lucas, I know I'm home all day, but ask me more questions about my day. And I'm being honest, I'm saying this lovely clearly. And I recognize because you know, it's sometimes I'm so focused on my day-to-day, you know, like come on, I woke up at 5 15 in the morning to record a podcast. I mean, we're just going crazy, but the small things in our homes matter. It matters so much. Like, I'm glad that, you know, like my wife, it's a simple thing, but it matters. And I and I, I mean, I I I prayed and I I asked the Lord. I'm like, Lord, you know, help me, help me to really be intentional about what about cultivating things in my house. Another thing, too, an example for me. I have a uh 16, almost 17 months-old daughter. She's incredible, but she's learning to talk now. She says, she probably has about 10 words in her vocabulary now. Uh, in a way, I cannot wait for her to be a little bit older so I can actually carry a conversation with her. But at the same time, I I I call myself, I believe the Spirit of God called myself the other day when I was we have like a little playroom, and she was hanging out when we are hanging out with her. She's playing now, she throws herself on the floor, she thinks it's so funny. Uh, in my mind, for a few seconds, I was thinking, I was like, well, I got some things to do, you know, like I gotta go. And God has been challenging me with that because my daughter will never be this old ever again. I cannot miss it. I can't, there's no better thing than cultivating what is going on with her heart in that playroom in our house. Uh, so I I think there's I think that's it. I would sum up I would summarize it in the people that are filled with God, they have a desire to cultivate things, and things that are not cultivated on this earth will die. So that that that that's my thought.

SPEAKER_00 29:16

I think that's great. You hear if I read one more scripture? Please go for it. Okay, this is Romans 12. Normally, this is the one that people will be like, do not be conformed to the ways of this world, but be transformed in the renewal of your mind. But if you go further down, yeah, when you were talking, this is what was resonating. Like, this was what I was thinking through. This is Romans 12, verse 9 through I think 16, 17. But you're talking about creating culture, talking about formulating relationships, being present, let love be genuine, abhor what is evil, hold fast to what is good, love one another with brotherly affection, outdo one another in showing honor, do not be slothful in zeal, be fervent in spirit, serve the Lord. And then it goes on to all this rejoice in hope, contribute to the needs, bless and don't curse, do not be haughty, repay. Like it's all about how you're how you're cultivating friendships and relationships. That's it. And those are all things that are happening right now. Those are all things that are happening right now on earth. Exactly. You know, like you're doing those things, those are things that that they're not just thought about, you know, you don't just think those things and you're doing the the commission, you're living out this commission on earth. Those are things that require real people, real work, real jobs, real dreams, real imagination, real purpose, real calling.

SPEAKER_01 30:45

Exactly. One thing that I do with what you were saying, though, you trigger my mind to something that I mean it's it's a little funny, but uh it anyways, I I spent a lot of time with high schoolers. A lot of time, and and and they're funny. They are funny, and they are they are awesome. Yeah, you know, they're they're funny and awesome. Uh one thing that I people start liking each other, and there's a vibe, you know, there's always a vibe, you know. I saw a little meme yesterday. I even reposted it. It was like it was like you know, on Stranger Things when I forgot the name of the girl, like the red hair girl. Like she she's she's on the she's she's you know, like laying on the ground, and then all the boys are kind of like around her helping her out, you know, on top of the on top of the graphic. It says the all the youth boys uh comforting and praying for the youth girl as she cries in an altar clock.

SPEAKER_00 31:49

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:50

And I was like, and I said I reposted and I said to a few dudes, I'm like, guys, chill out. Yeah, you're right. But one thing that is in that's deep, that's so deep in my heart is the is the training of the youth mind, and I I'm I've I verbalize, I'm clear about this concerning dating. My philosophy is number one, don't date in high school. Okay, I have this flaw, don't date in high school. Why? I have a clear test. Here's a test. Are you ready to get married next year? If the answer is no, you shouldn't be concerned about dating, period. That's it's simple like that. Why? Because God doesn't have a commitment with you dating, he has a commitment with marriage. That's it. His commitment is with you as a single human being, or his commitment is with marriage. A little for some people is a little extreme, but uh well, there's 50% of people are getting divorced. So the thing it's not it's no joke. Like, I why are we gonna uh the the percentage of you becoming successful at dating your high school sweetheart, have been dating forever. I think the odds are against you. So we're you know, like work on yourself first. Yeah, so delay. I always say that delay the dating period to work in yourself. So when you start dating, I mean, you already know the person, you already are locked in, you date for a year, year and a half, you propose to get married, done. Why? And here's why. I don't know if I mentioned this before, but I think it was J.K. Chelsterton, if I'm pronouncing his name correctly, said one of the most uh he said the most important thing in the world is an ordinary man married to an ordinary woman, raising their ordinary children in an ordinary house. That's that is what is that is what changes the world. I think we are so focused about being uh the best, the star, this this big influence, and we abdicate the cultivation of the things that look average, and those things are the things that matter the most. So a practical going back to your own question, like a practical way of doing all of this is by it's by doing that. Like whatever work you do, you know, just be the best at it. Doesn't matter, it doesn't matter what you do, doesn't matter who is watching. As Paul said, like you work for your earthly bosses, you are working for the Lord. Do that to the best of your ability. If you are married, take care of your spouse. You know, there's and I mean, especially for the husbands, there's always something we can do better. Lucas. No, I mean, you think about it, like Jesus said, husbands, and I'm I mean, I'm making I'm making Lucas, I'm making it funny, but I mean it's actually true. Because I'm like, I it's both it both needs work, right? But Paul said, husbands, love your wife, love your wives like Christ loved the church. So I mean, it the husband is the pursuer, and I'm it's for all of us, right? So I think there, I think there's something there. If the river of God is flowing from within us, and all of this we are being commissioned to preach the gospel. I think the first place we gotta preach the gospel is our own homes. Yes. So, but anyways, no, you there's a lot of talk about in here. You crack me up, bro.

SPEAKER_00 35:09

You crack me up. There's a there's a lot of good stuff in there, you know. It's uh my mind is racing, and and I don't want to get lost in my thoughts. I want to I want to spend uh some time. Okay, you you you had kind of framed you had been talking to me during this time, and there's a couple words that are just running through my mind. Calling and purpose, calling and purpose, calling and purpose. And in connection to what you have been calling in this conversation the Genesis mandate. I would love for you because it the reason why I think it's running through my mind is it helped it is I'm thinking of the person of Abraham. You know, I'm thinking of this unique call or purpose that you would have on his life, but I want you to kind of define those words. Does that make sense what I'm trying to ask? Like I'm trying to get to a place where you're you're you've I I've loved how this where where this at. I love where my mind's at. I love how I'm how I'm having to take a moment to pause and process this and think through this stuff. And I'm wanting to hear your heart behind the passion that you have. And I want to hear, I want to hear it through the lens of when you hear that word purpose, when you hear that word calling, when you think of Genesis, when you're thinking of Abraham, what is running through your mind? Okay, does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 36:50

I like that. I I honestly I might even keep the Abraham part to another piece of episode just because it's so massive.

SPEAKER_00 36:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:58

But uh let's go to uh purpose and calling first. Yeah, is there a difference in purpose and calling? Yes. In short, purpose is eternal, calling temporary.

SPEAKER_00 37:08

Okay, then I feel like that like you gotta go deeper on that needs to be impact.

SPEAKER_01 37:13

Because calling has a lot to do with assignment, okay, right? So we have this assignment, this role to to play, and it in a way, I mean it's it's temporary. A calling we are called to do this thing, and you know, it in comparison to purpose, calling is more an assignment, right? And by the way, when I say calling, what about the call to be good? Is it temporary? Come on, of course not, right? I'm talking we are talking about calling in terms of vocational calling, like we are called to be an engineer, we are called to be a pastor, we are called that's kind of in the sense that I'm talking about. Uh, purpose is established, and calling is established within the purpose. So, purpose is the all-embracing mechanism that calling flows from. So, if our purpose is not rooted in eternal realities, if our purpose is not rooted in the scriptures, how are we gonna see our own vocation? It will be all messed up. So we have a leadership class here every Thursday from 7 to 8:30. One of the things that I talk about the most is spiritual practices, talk about the word. Why? Because it doesn't matter how good of a doctor you will be in the future, if that vocation is disconnected from the purpose of humanity, which it's not which it's not particular to you and I, it's particular to all of mankind. See the difference there. Purpose is very general and very rooted in eternity, it's very eternal. Calling is like this this it flows from that. Okay, so let's start with purpose first. Uh, what is the purpose of God for mankind? There's a lot of there are some catchphrases which is packed with truth, right? Which is which are truthful statements. Like there are things such as like uh uh to to to know God and to make him known. I think it was Lauren Cunningham, and I think don't quote me on that, but I think he was the the guy that started YWAN uh to know God and to make him known. It's the the chief purpose of God for mankind, according to it to this uh uh statement, which there's a lot of truth to that, right? We are we are to relate to God and to make his relationship known to all of mankind. So there's a lot of truth to that. Uh, but the version that I like the most is what I've heard, is what I learned in Bible college, which uh Kevin Connor, which is his uh uh Australian theologian, he impacted really well, which is goes back all the way to Genesis. So you go to Genesis 1. Actually, tell you, could you read Genesis 1? Genesis 1 uh 26 through 28. Genesis 1 26 through 28. And I recommend all of you guys to write that down your notes and like go back to it. Just read and marinate on it. Genesis one, twenty-six through twenty-eight. Let's see it.

SPEAKER_00 40:27

Then God said, Let us make man in our image after our likeness, and let them have dominion over the flesh of or excuse me, over the flesh. Let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the heavens, and over the livestock, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him, male and female, he created them. And God blessed them, and God said to them, Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the heavens, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.

SPEAKER_01 41:11

According to Kevin Connor, I love that. Thank you for reading it. Uh, according to Kevin Connor, and I mean, when I say according to him, it's not because he's having this new thought, it's just he's just breaking it down, just making it more uh uh teachable, if that makes sense, more clear to understand. Uh, he breaks it down in four things. He calls it the fourfold purpose of God for mankind, which I I mean it's in the text. Uh, his four things are uh number one, relationship. Mankind was created to have a we we were made to have a relationship with God, right? That it starts with that, and to have a relationship with people. So we were made for relationships, easy. Number two, we're made to uh uh to to to embody the very character of God in all this earth, a character. Well, I don't see the word character there, image, and we'll get we'll get to that image. There's a whole thing on image there. Uh number three, we're called to be fruitful and multiply, and we'll I'm gonna unpack each one of them, be fruitful and multiply. Number four, we are called to subdue the earth, feud the earth, and subdue it. So we have relationship, character, uh frutification, and number four, subduing, right? Or governing or dominion exercise. These four things, what those are the fourfold purpose of God for mankind. And by the way, it goes back to the beginning why I asked you to read the whole Great Commission thing. Yeah, right. Uh, is the idea of if we don't understand the purpose of God, if we don't understand the purpose of mankind, how would we understand the Great Commission without that context? Because the Great Commission is to preach the gospel so we are restored to what to what we've we're supposed to be all along.

SPEAKER_00 42:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 42:54

So if I don't know what I'm supposed to be as a human being, uh, how would the gospel make sense? No wonder people think that oh, it's a salvation from hell. It's not, I mean, that that's it's a it's a it's a byproduct, but it's if I don't even want to use the word byproduct, even though it's that it's true, right? But why? Why are we being saved from that? We are being saved for what reason? It's not just so we don't go to hell, that's ridiculous. It's so we are restored to our very purpose as humanity.

SPEAKER_00 43:28

Yeah, if you make the focus us not going to hell, then the focus becomes us as opposed to what you're saying, you know, as opposed to us focusing on God, the plan that He has laid out, and the role that He has placed us within that plan and the desire that He wants to communicate with us as we build stuff together. Does that make sense? Exactly. Exactly. I think that's what you're saying. I think that makes a lot of sense.

SPEAKER_01 43:54

Exactly. If we if we make it about, if we make it about, oh, I'm not going to, I'm not To hell now, I'm going to heaven. Like, I mean, it it's just a ticket to heaven, yeah. All right, and it's very fear-based, too, because it's like, oh, I don't want to go to hell. Wait a minute, like, God has made you and I for a purpose, yes. And this purpose is described in Genesis 1. I cannot understand the go and preach the gospel to all, make disciples, make disciples for what sake? So we are all restored to live out our fourfold purpose of God. He made this, he made He created us for that. The fourfold, let's let's break it down really quick. By the way, how long do we have? How many? How long have we been talking? Guys, actually, there's so much to unpack, like on this thing. I think we should pause. We we are on 40-something minutes already, so let's pause and let's come back. Episode four will be the continuation of this because I wanted to be I wanted to unpack this fourfold. I love you. Do you want to pray to end this conversation? Absolutely. Okay, let's do it.

SPEAKER_00 44:55

Let's do it, man.

SPEAKER_01 44:55

Father God, thank you. Thank you for restoring us. Thank you for being in the business of turning our hearts to you so we can act on your behalf on this earth. Thank you for making us cultivators of things on this earth. Thank you for the opportunity to cultivate the good that you have already provided. We thank you. We ask for your blessing today in your name. Amen.