UNWRAPPED

Your calling is a gift from God, but it cannot be unwrapped from the inside.

In this episode, the conversation continues on purpose and calling by returning to Genesis 1:26–28 and exploring the fourfold purpose of God for humanity: relationship, character, fruitfulness, and dominion. If purpose is eternal and calling is vocational, then we cannot understand what we are called to do until we first understand what we were created for.

This conversation challenges the modern obsession with “looking within” and argues that calling is revealed through God, Scripture, community, formation, and faithful stewardship. We were made for relationship, shaped to reflect God’s image, called to bear fruit, and commissioned to fill the earth with God’s good culture.

More resources, transcripts, and ways to connect: www.visionaryhuddle.com
Follow the Visionary Huddle on Instagram: @visionaryhuddle
Follow Lucas on Instagram: @lucascecilio1

Transcript

0:00

In other words, one of the cornerstones of our very reality, of our very essence, is relationships. I like to say that a calling and a purpose is a gift from God to us that cannot be unwrapped from the inside. Yeah. I think we looked, I think we looked within ourselves so much trying to unwrap the gift, but that's not how the gift was intended to be unwrapped. It has to be unwrapped from the outside. So we need things outside. We need people who are created for them.Anywhere and everywhere that you are in the world, I'm excited that you took some time to listen to this. By the way, I just want to pause for a little bit and ask you if you have not subscribed to it yet, please do do that. I think that's important. It helps the channel, helps this podcast go further. And if you have been enjoying so far and you think of somebody that actually maybe you didn't even think of anybody, but just think right now on your top three people that you talk with the most, or top one or two, and just forward this to them. Forward an episode that you watch it fully, just send it to them. Uh, encourage people to listen. I think it's a really good conversation. The more people listening to this, I think, the better this has to go uh further and forward. So thank you so much for your time. This is gonna be really good. We are treating this as almost like a part two of episode three. So this is episode four, but part two of the previous one. We have been talking about uh purpose and and and calling. And uh we have uh te you had actually read Genesis 1, 26 through 28. We were to we were about to start talking about the fourfold purpose of God for mankind. So we want to jump uh right back into it, and I'm gonna ask him to read that again. Teu actually before, dude, thanks for being here. Absolutely, my brother. Absolutely happy to be here. All right, I'm gonna read Genesis 1, 26 through 28, also in ESV. Then God said, Let us make man in our image after our likeness, and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the heavens, and over the livestock, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth. So God created man in his own image. In the image of God, he created him, male and female, he created them. And God blessed them, and God said to them, Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the heavens, and over every living thing that moves on the earth. I love this passage so much. Uh, I don't know if we talked about this before, but uh if we had in fact, there's a lot of things that I will repeat because that is the story of the Bible, right? That's biblical theology. There's there's it's one narrative that is unfolding throughout time and culminating the person of Jesus Christ. So there are things in the Bible that keeps repeating itself for the sake of our comprehension. Uh, there's a principle called the first mention principle, right? Which basically states that if you want to understand a theme really well, go back to the first time that that theme is introduced. So if we want to understand purpose, if we want to understand calling, we gotta go back to the first time where that was introduced. And that was Genesis 126 through 28. That's the human that's the human being mandate. That's the human, that's the the establishment of humanity right there in then Genesis 126 through 28. Kevin Connor, which is an Australian theologian, he's one of the foul, he's one of the fathers of our movement. Uh, we are a part of MFI, stands for Ministers Fellowship International. In fact, uh my pastor, Pastor Jess Strickland, is in Brazil right now. He spoke at MFI Brazil. Over a thousand pastors did some pastors like pastoring over 40,000 people, just crazy stuff. And it's fascinating that MFI started actually in Portland, Oregon, right? At a church called Bible Temple, that now it's manna house, you know, and this movement has literally honestly millions of people combined in terms of church attendance worldwide. So it's pretty fascinating. Kevin Connor was one of the founders, one of the fathers of the movement. A lot of Portland Bible college theology comes from Kevin Connor. Not just him, there's a lot of other influences, great influence, influences, but Kevin Connor is definitely a deep one. One way that Kevin Connor uh used to teach from Genesis 1, 26 through 28, especially, shout out to uh Ken Malmy, which I'm pretty sure is still the professor for decades. Ken is a faithful man teaching basic doctrine for decades at Portland Bible College. By the way, Portland Bible College is not paying me to do this at all. Maybe they should. I just happened to be a PBC alumni. I met my wife at Portland Bridal College. I mean, Portland Bible College. That's the place. And that's the joke. Portland Bridal College. Met my wife there, met some of my closest friends there. Uh, in basic doctrine, one of the core doctrines was the doctrine of man. And in order to understand mankind, we gotta go back to Genesis, first mentioned principle. In order to understand the purpose of God for mankind, we gotta go back to Genesis, Genesis 126 through 28. And the way that Kevin Connor breaks it down is those four things, which he called the fourfold purpose of God for mankind, which is relationship, character, frutification, and dominion, right? Uh maybe we can use different words for it, but the idea is that, right? Relationship, character, uh, frutification, multiplication, and dominion, or subduing that whole thing. Let's break every single one of them down. I think it's very important. And by the way, if you are in a place that you can take notes, please take notes, right? I I think note taking is essential for learning and uh absorption of information, learning more. If you can, do that. I think that'll be good. So let's go number one, uh, relationship. Let's let's start with relationship. The relationship part is unique because even the way that God starts, even the way that the text starts describing, uh, it says, let us, right? Let us make mankind, which is which is fascinating because who is God talking to? Is he talking to the angels? Well, I will propose to you that let us God talking with the with himself is the Trinitarian community, is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit involved in the creation process. And the father loves the son forever, and the son loves his father forever, and out of that relationship, forever, there is a forever pulsating, uh, uh divine dance, which is actually not a dance, a person. Um I mean, I'm paraphrasing C. S. Lewis here, uh, but that's the Trinity, right? This Trinitarian fellowships, this God that is three persons, one God is this whole thing that we can get to in another subject, but in another uh episode. But he but the idea is God, the Trinitarian community, the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit, are completely involved in the process of creating mankind and creating men and women. Yes, here's why that matters because it is from the essence of a God who is relational that human beings are created. In other words, one of the cornerstones of our very reality, our very essence is relationships. Uh, I like to say that uh a calling and a purpose is a gift from God to us that cannot be unwrapped from the inside. He can only be unwrapped from the outside. Yeah, I think we looked, I think we looked within ourselves so much trying to unwrap the gift, but that's not how the gift was intended to be unwrapped. It has to be unwrapped from the outside. So we need things outside, we need people, we were created for that. I remember uh I think it was 2019, I was in a very interesting season of my life. Uh, I was married already, uh, happily so we were having a great time. Um, but but the the the funny thing was this like my wife and I, we were we're traveling a little bit, we're uh uh uh uh going on road trips. Uh her family's from California, so we're going to California often. It was a great time. But here's what was happening in my in my spiritual life, in my ministry life. Uh I felt that every time somebody would come up to me and ask me, Hey Lucas, can you pray for me? I would pray for you, and I would always feel that I had a word to give. So I was giving a word to everybody, but I wasn't getting anything for myself. So I was feeling that I I was prophesying for everybody, but I couldn't prophesy over myself. I couldn't not prophesy over myself, but I couldn't hear God for myself. Right. And then I had a conversation with my pastor, Pastor Jazz. Pastor Jazz was already my pastor. I wasn't working at Living Hope, but I he was already my pastor. Uh I talked to Pastor Jazz, and Pastor Jazz looked at me, I will never forget. He said, uh that's so you don't grow selfish, Lucas. I was like, what do you mean? And he was like, Well, imagine if you could hear from God for everybody and yourself. You that means you wouldn't need anybody. I was like, that was so profound. That was so simple and so profound. I was like, wait a minute, that's true. And he was like, Yeah, there are things about there are things that God wants to do with you now. If He's not saying anything now, it's not because He's not saying, He's just not saying directly to you. He's saying to other people around you. But if you are not connected to people around you, you're not gonna hear. Guess what? God was just speaking to me through somebody else at that very moment. Yeah, your gift, your call, if you want to understand your vocational call, stop trying to unwrap the gift from within. It is unwrapped from the outside, it's it's it's it's outside. Somebody else has to help you unwrap it. Uh, one of the ways of helping you to unwrap it is if you understand really well this four uh this fourfold purpose of God. Because again, as I said on episode three, and if you hadn't listened episode three, go back to and listen to that. Because I said, uh tell you asked this question what's the difference between purpose and and calling? If there is a difference, and I would and I said, yes, there is a difference. Purpose is broader, it's it's more general and it's eternal, while calling is more it's an assignment and it's more temporary. That's it's more we are talking about vocational calling, not the call to be good, for example. That's a different thing, yeah. Vocational calling, that is an assignment for now, right? Purpose, however, that is the unchangeable. That's why we started the conversation going back to the fourfold, the fourfold purpose of God for mankind in Genesis 1, 26 through 28. So it starts with number one, we were made for relationships, and if that part is messed up, everything else will fall apart. So here's my question to all of our listeners, and even to you like, how is your relationship with God, and how is your relationship with people? There's this there, I I uh uh there's this interesting this cool little illustration that we use. There's a lot of that's it's very truthful. Uh, the cross has two sides, the vertical and the horizontal. The vertical is to connect us back to God, and the horizontal is to connect us back to people. So on the death of Jesus Christ, he's restoring both dimensions of relationship. We are now vertically reconnected with our Father in heaven, and now we are horizontally reconnected with our brothers and sisters. This thing is so serious that Paul himself says, in communion during the church service, uh, do not partake in communion if there is an offense in your heart against your brother. Yeah, why? Because Christ died so that so the reconciliation could be possible. So if I'm right, and and I mean we can talk about this in another episode because there's a lot of depth to it, because things such as like what do we do when the other person doesn't want to reconcile? That's a deep thing. I'm not gonna get to that now because of the purpose of the podcast of the episode, but we can definitely get to that in another time because that's deep. In fact, if one of you two could even write that down, I think the just write reconciliation, I think that matters big time. Uh uh, but relationships, that's number one. Let's go to number two now. Number two, character. And by the way, I might even jump back into relationships every now and then because it flows out of that, right? It what is eternal life? Again, Jesus' own words, as I said, episode three. It is to know God. What what is to know? Like, what does knowing mean? What did Jesus think when he said the word know? Like, was did he mean uh uh acknowledge it? Did he mean you know as a fact? Because that's a lot, that's how a lot of people treat belief. I I have to keep going back to this all the time because it is it matters. It is it just like knowing a hard fact. Well, like I can know hard facts about Michael Jordan, but I never shook the guy's hands. And in Jesus' mind, he didn't he didn't mean you know hard facts. He he meant you are able to shake the guy's hand and you are actually able to dwell in his house. So the relationship that he that he that that that that it's meant between us and our and our and and God, it's a relationship of not just knowing hard facts about him, but is to to live, we know we know him, we actually know him and we are known by him. Check this out. Uh, one of the pronouncements of judgment in uh uh in the gospels, when Jesus is explaining the judgment day, one of the things he says is like some people will come up to me and say, I prophesied in your name, I casted out demons in your name, I healed the sick in your name, I appreciate I did all of these cool things, but then I said, I mean, get behind me, like a go. I mean, I don't know you. Question for you what does that mean? I don't know you. I thought Jesus knows everything. Of course he does, but the knowing there is relationally knowing. What Jesus meant is like, you've never opened, I wanted, but you never open up space in your life for you and I to have an intimate relationship. That's what he means. I've never related to you so deeply that my blood was actually inside of you. Like we we I we've never overlapped, we've never, we've never you never allowed your heart to be so shaped by me daily. We've never had a relationship. You knew hard facts about me, and you prophesy, cool, but we did not have a deep relationship. It does. Here's the thing, guys. It doesn't matter what you do, like you could be the mover and shaker of the planet Earth, you're you could be on Wikipedia, I mean, or the grok, the Glock Grok one, yeah, that's the grokpedia, like is the the new the Elon Musk. It doesn't matter how many followers you have on Instagram, it doesn't matter how much money you make, if your relationship with your father in heaven, if your relationship with Jesus, if your relationship relationship with the spirit of God is not in alignment, if you're not walking with him daily, that's that every it's a domino effect. Everything else will be messed up. Let us let the Trinitarian community who is relational, who is loving. How can love be possible without somebody else? Yes, that's why God is a trinity, that's why He's a that's why Yahweh is a Trinitarian community, because how can love be loved without somebody else to love? What the uh Jesus called like the uh the uh I think it's Isaiah 9, it says that he'll be called eternal father. How could God be an eternal father without an eternal son? How could God be an eternal father without an eternal son? So the son is there eternally, forever, forever begetting from the father, forever proceeding from the father, forever eternally, always in relationship, and humanity is created from that place, so we are welcomed in that fellowship. If we are not in alignment with that, that's purpose number one that's failed, therefore, all the other ones have failed too. Reconnect with God, and out of that you will reconnect with people. By the way, on the whole uh reconnecting with people, thing one thing that God teaches us, and this is very practical. One thing that walking with God daily trains the mind, it trains the mind for emotional intelligence, and emotional intelligence is key for to thrive in in human relationships. How can we have an actual human relationship without emotional intelligence? Let me give you an example. Have you guys ever met with somebody that they would not give you space to talk? Like they are the only ones talking the whole time, but they are not asking you a question. That's a lack of emotional intelligence. You are not perceiving that there's another human being in the room that must be listened to, and they gotta be triggered by the right questions. And it is you, if you're listening to me, when you sit with somebody, it is your responsibility to ask the right questions from others. Yeah, oh, but I uh I let's say this I think one of the reasons when we sit with somebody else, all that we want to do is that we want to do the talking. Uh I'm not saying there are relationships between an extrovert and an introvert where the introvert he they want to just keep listening, yeah, and you give space, but they will always talk less. That's not what I'm talking about. I am talking about people that they have not been bringing, that they have not, they are not taking their issues and this the matters of their hearts to God. So now they take it to other people, and that's all they do. I am not saying you should not confess, you shouldn't talk, you should, because you should. You should have friends that you deeply trust that you can just tell them stuff. You must, that's that matters, as long as we are we are doing that primarily to the Lord, because if the Lord's not fixing our hearts in the in the in the place of prayer, if the Lord is not dealing with the issues of our hearts in the place of prayers, we we are going to go to we are going to interact with other people from a place of selfishness, and we will lack the emotional intelligence necessary to develop deep friendships. There's maybe you're listening to me right now and you're like, I don't have friends, I'm struggling with friends. Are you being the are you the kind of person that is worth to be called a friend to somebody else? Because sometimes we are so selfish that we are looking at everybody, nobody wants to be friends with me. Maybe there should be that could be an indicator of something. Maybe I am not saying it is, but it's worth paying attention. Number one, relationships with God with people. Number two, this one is huge character. Oh boy, I'm ready to say some stuff. Go for it, bro. The word character is an interesting word, image. What is image? Or if you get if you get a coin, there is an image of a president there, right? There's a stamp. Back in the day in the Roman Empire, the Greek, all those when we started having coins, the face of the emperor was stamped on the coin. It's the image. What is an image? An image is pointing to someone else. It's categorizing, is naming it, is creating it's the kind of meaning that points to something else. When God creates mankind in his image, in his likeness, it is like we are a coin in which the king is stamping his face on it. If you go to the Ten Commandments, what's the first thing that God starts describing there? You shall not have any other gods, you know, like I'm the only, I'm the I'm your God. Right? And they and then he says, You are prohibited, you're not gonna make any images of anything on heaven and earth. Why? Why are we not allowed to make idol? Quote unquote idols. Why we cannot create a sculpture that represents the divine, why not? Because God has already created an idol, it's called humanity. That's why. And I know that that might throw some people off, but it's true. Go back, and that's the word image. It is the image, like that's it's in Genesis 1. We cannot create other images because Yahweh has already created himself an image, it is humanity. You look at human beings, and by the way, when you look at that setup of creation in the words in the first chapters of the Bible, it is a temple, it is a temple. You see the uh you see, even in Genesis 2, you see the Garden of Eden. By the way, is the garden and the Eden the same place? It seems that Eden is a place in the garden, or the garden is a place in Eden, regardless. There's these two different dimensions there, and by the way, it seems like the Eden is a place in the garden because Genesis 2 says that waters was flowing from Eden and watering the garden. It was like this Eden is this place in the garden where waters are flowing from this place called Eden and watering all the garden and watering all the earth. You jump to Ezekiel 47. We have our Bible plan with the church, and we're uh uh reading Ezekiel a few days ago. We just started Ephesians. Thank God, because Ezekiel is a hard time, it's big time, man. Yeah, it's crazy. But Ezekiel 47 talks about the river, he talks about the River of God, yes, and the rivers of the these waters are flowing from the Holy of Holies, in which, by the way, the Holy of Holies back in the day, you have the temple structure structured in three different phases, right? You have number one, the Holy of Holies with the Ark of the Covenant, meaning the very presence of God in the Holy of Holies, in which the highest priest would walk in only once a year, and then the uh outside of the Holy of Holies, you have the holy place, which the priests was there, they were there every day ministering, they were working, they were doing things, and then outside of the holy of the holy place, you have the outer quarter, which people could go in and out, right? This is this thing outside. So when you look at the how God created the world, he's clearly making a temple because you have Eden, like the Holy of Holies, you have the garden around, like the holy place, and you have the rest of the world like the outer quarter. He's holy of holies, holy place, outer of quarter, and outer quarter. Eden, garden, rest of the world is temple language. Some theologians believe is like the the the is like the garden, is this mountain like isn't it interesting that all throughout the Bible now there's this image of God calling people back to the mountain to restore the relationship that would in turn restore the capacity to reflect Him in character? Relationship must be restored in order for character to be revealed. That's a phrase right there. Relationship must be restored in order for character to be revealed. When we have the when we have fractions in our character, that points to relationships that have not been properly mended. Our relationships with God Himself and relationships with people, character uh uh deformities, it's it points to relationship deformities, so and vice versa, they all feed on each other. So even in the Great Commission that you that we talked about like last episode, where does Jesus give the Great Commission? In a mountain, why? Because he's pointing back to the garden, it's the garden link. That's why we got to understand the Great Commission at the light of Genesis 1. He's giving in a mountain, uh, Zion, uh, you know, the uh uh uh uh um I think it's Isaiah 2 that says, in the last days, the mountain of the Lord will be exalted above all mountains, and all the peoples of the earth will flow to and ask, please teach us the way of the Lord. Why is a mountain being raised up? Why it's garden language, it's temple language, is the is God dwelling in the midst of his people, and from that place he's making all things new. That's it, that is the language. So, image. One thing about image that uh one thing about image that it matters is Paul. He I believe he's in 2nd Corinthians, I believe in 2nd Corinthians or 1 Corinthians. He talks about us with unveiled faces, with contemplate, some translations would say reflect, like in a mirror, we'll contemplate God and be transformed. The interesting thing is that the word used there actually is a double meaning word is contemplate and reflect like in a mirror. In other words, when you look at a mirror, the mirror is capturing your image and reflecting back at you. Human beings are like walking mirrors. That is a good way of understanding the image of God. Some people, I don't, I don't, I don't some people treat being the image of God almost like an adjective only, right? Like we we it it's a it's who we are, it's we are that way. I it when we look at Genesis, it doesn't seem so. It's more of a verb. I'm not saying that it's not a quality, but it's it's not just an adjective, it's has more to do with a verb than it has to do with the just a state of being. It is more a state of doing, like we we are meant to image, it's a verb there. We are meant to image how so we are walking mirrors, and as walking mirrors, we we look at we we look at God, we contemplate him by looking at him, by gazing upon him, by having relationship with him, and by having relationship with God, we reflect back. It's the same words, contemplate and reflect. We contemplate him and we reflect him back into the world. Why does that matter? Because everything else, the fruitation, the subduing, the creating culture, all of that must flow from that place of relationship where we learn from him. We call is Jesus' invitation, come and learn from me. Is we walk with him so closely, we are in in such a close proximity with our God, that now we start acting like him, we start imaging him, we start looking like him. That's why that is why precisely, that's why precisely this is this is why precisely Christians started being called Christians. I think the Church of Antioch, like the whole they were they started being called Christians at first. I mean, it was used as it was pejorative. This is the little Christ, that you know, like the imitators of this rabbi. But but even though they were trying to use pejorative, we took it and we ran with it because that's exactly what we are trying to do. We are trying to literally walk like our rabbi, like Jesus. We are trying to uh that why because it's it's our purpose. We were made to image God. How are we going to image the God that we don't have a relationship with? We must relationship number one. Now we image him, our character, our very character starts being uh uh transformed in order for people around us that interact with us and they look at us and they experience us. Our character is pointing to something beyond. That is the image part. People experience our goodness. I I was I was thinking about my daughter the other day. Uh now in a way, it's like quote unquote, it's like I am. I will say this just for the the the dramatic, but when I'm gonna explain, some people might be like, oh my goodness. But I'll say it. It's like I'm God for my daughter. That's kind that's that's it. It's like I she she she every night uh uh we we we do our bedtime routine with her, and then we pray the Lord's Prayer with her. I sing the doxology to her, right? Praise Father from all blessings flow. Like I sing that to her like every night, and then my wife and I we pray the Lord's Prayer together with her every night. Uh why? Because we are demo, we are imaging God, she is gonna see those things. Get this the liturgy that we teach our children today will impact their decision making tomorrow. So we do these little rituals with our daughter so in the future she can, she's impacted by this out this this the this decision making is already established because of liturgies that her parents worked with her when she was younger. Because why? Because we are imaging God to her. It's important that I'm good to my daughter. Why? Because when she grows up and sings you are a good, good father, she doesn't have any trouble believing that. A lot of that's the thing, a lot of people struggle, a lot of people they don't struggle with Jesus, they struggle with people that claim to follow Jesus and are not walking like Jesus. So you have something. Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he and when he is old, he will not depart from it. You are training up your child in the way that leads them to bear the image that they've been created into exactly so that way they do when they are old, they do not depart from that call that to bear the image or that purpose to bear the image. Exactly, exactly. And by the way, this training up of a child is a lot of people think is teaching. Just teach them, just take them to church, guys. If you are a father, a mother, and you are listening to me, stop delegating the training up of your children to others. Like, I mean, the church comes and we teach and we empower and but we are complementing what needs to be happening in the household. Like we are training the parents and we are training the children, yes. So in the household from Monday through Saturday, is the whole again, it points back to the separation between okay, like the spiritual things are happening in the church, but in my house, I mean I'm working, I'm busy. Guys, the training up of a child is the talking, the teaching, yes, but it's the liturgies also, it's the little rituals, the little habits that you are doing combined. It those things matter because it is how you end up training your children to be image-bearer, they are bearing the image of their creator. How will they image their creator if you, as their parents, are not imaging the creator to them? You are responsible to image the creator to your children so they can't see it's a is a whole thing of you need something to look upon and then reflect. For little kids, they're looking upon the parents. If the parents are not acting like Jesus, it's messing up the kids are waiting at a young age. So, number one, relationships, number two, uh, image uh character. Number three, this one, this one is important. Number three, I mean, all of them is important, are important, right? But number three, be fruitful and multiply. What does that mean? At first glance, I mean, everybody thinks about the being fruitful and multiply as have babies. Like you have you have you have kids, and by having kids, you are being fruitful, you are multiplying, you that that's that's great. And that and that's one aspect of that. That that matters. It is one aspect, but it's not just that. What about your your in the insights that God has given you? Isn't that something that is worth being fruitful with it and multiplying? Isn't it isn't that worth isn't that something that's worth uh uh uh uh uh sowing? A lot a lot of the of the being fruitful and multiplying has to do with sowing, it has to do with sowing and reaping. The reality is God is so good, He created, He created a world that everything we sow, we're gonna reap. Galatians says that man, uh that God cannot be mocked, whatever we sow, we are going to reap. Why? Because the God's green earth is this good garden that everything we plant, we are going to see growing. Everything you reap what you sow. Dude, in like even bad things. Why bad things grow? God's green earth, the it's so good. If you plant thorns, guess what? The soil is good. We gotta be watch, we gotta watch what we plant, and the mandate, a part of the mandate of being a human being is to be fruitful. Isn't it interesting that in order for why the why does Jesus in the gospel he curses a tree? Because the tree is not doing what is not fulfilling its purpose. What is what is the tree's purpose? It is to bear fruit. Jesus cursed something that was not revealing its purpose, that was not walking in its purpose. What was the purpose to be fruitful, to be multiplying. Some people have a really hard time, especially in our days. Some people have a hard time with uh with wealth. People treat wealth like it's one pie, and everybody's fighting for that one pie. They fail to understand that honestly, I will I will say wealth is eternal. Some people don't like when I say that. No, wealth is not eternal, it's finite. It's not, it's really not finite, it's infinite. Why is it infinite? Because wealth is tied to value, value is infinite. You think about an orange tree, think about an apple tree. How many, how many apple trees is in one seed? You cannot count, it's virtually infinite. Why? Because you're gonna plant that one seed, it will become an apple tree with a lot of other seeds that could. I mean, yeah, that thing keeps going and going and going and going, and it is a part of it is a part of our heavenly purpose to be fruitful. In order to be fruitful means you are healthy. You cannot be fruitful unless you are healthy. By the way, you cannot you cannot be fruitful unless you are planted by the streams of waters. Psalm chapter 1 says, Blessed is the man who does not, I'm gonna paraphrase a little bit the first verses because it's something like, Blessed is the man who doesn't walk in the path of sinners, doesn't sit with the scoffers, but his uh his heart, his mind is in the law of the Lord, in his law he meditates day and night. For he shall be like a tree planted by the streams of waters, and he will bear fruit in its season, everything he does will prosper. What does that mean? That's a that is a picture of fruitification right there. You are so fruitful because you are planted in your God, you are so fruitful because you are walking with your God, and because you are walking with your God, now you're healthy, and healthy thing, guess what? Healthy things grow. A lot of people don't understand what they are meant to do, not because they have an issue with what they are with what, they have an issue with the who. They are not planted in their God, they are not spending time in the presence of their God long time, as Eugene Peterson would say, is a long obedience in the same direction as we are living with our God, spending time spending time with our God, uh planted by the streams of waters. Meaning is that God Himself the streams of waters. We talked about waters flowing from Eden and watering the garden. What does that mean? What does that mean? You go to Ezekiel 47, there's waters flowing out of the Holy of Holies, you go to the you go to John 4, and Jesus tells the Samaritan woman, uh, well, uh the true worshipers, they will worship in the spirit and truth, and there's a river flowing from within them. It's all the same ideas, the very life of God that is flowing from his presence in you. And if you are walking with your God and his presence is flowing from within, guess what? Everything in you is water, therefore, you become now a healthy person that can finally be fruitful. And if you are fruitful, now what you must do, you must multiply. But it's almost an automatic purpose, it's almost an automatic thing. Is the Joe John 15 issue that Jesus proposes. If you are if you are if you are in me, like I'm the vine where the branches, if you are connected to me, you will bear fruit. The issue of bearing fruit is an issue of being attached to Jesus. That is the whole issue. It's not an issue of trying to understand what kind of fruit you should bear. That is a here's the thing: that's a lot of people's problems. People, people off we often focus too much on what kind of fruit we should bear. And the reality is the invitation from Jesus is come and stay with me, hang with me, be attached to me, stay in me, stay plugged in all day long. Let's stay together because out of being attached to the vine, you will bear fruit, it's automatic. God will you it's it's the whole we were talking about this, Demarcus, the other day, about the inclinations of the heart. The more that we abide in Jesus, the more of the inclinations of our heart change, and now we learn how to lean in towards the right opportunities to bear fruit, and bearing fruit becomes completely automatic. It is automatic. Now, a few examples of how to be fruitful. Of course, we have the kids, right? You bear fruit by having children, right? That's very if you are married, have kids, right? That's big time. But here's some other things I mentioned about the insight. How many times do we have insights that we don't share with anybody? What do you mean by sharing? Text somebody. I was thinking about you, this popped up in my mind. Meaning, bear fruit, become the kind of person that is fruitful. What about fruitful conversations? Did you know that fruitful conversations may result in business ideas? You will you are literally planting seeds of wealth in other people's hearts just by listening to their ideas and giving your feedback. That's being fruitful. I think if we focus the dude, the the bearing, the idea of being fruitful and multiplying, it is again the idea of being fruitful and multiplying is tied to the idea of sowing seeds. What kind of seeds do you have? The parab of the sower, sowers coming and throwing seeds. Seeds is the word, the very word of God that is being thrown at you. How dude, it's funny. I start talking about this stuff. A lot of verses start popping up in my mind. Deuteronomy chapter 8, the Bible says that because it is the Lord your God who gives you power to make wealth to conform his covenant. How does he give you power to make wealth? By giving you seeds. And if you don't plant the seeds the Lord is giving you, you are never going to step into that place of green pastures. Well, wealth speaking. Because it's a matter of of sowing. Sowing what? Sowing ideas, sowing ideas into a piece of paper, into a business plan. Sowing I we had an idea for the podcast. What did I do? I called the markets, I called Tayu. I sold the idea into them, and they received the idea. And now here we are recording. Guess what? What if we never release this? We are withholding the seed. We have to sow the seed. Into you are listening to me right now. We I'm sowing a seed into you that might be sparking something in your heart right now for you to be moved into action. Sowing seeds. Now you're listening to me. What are the seeds that you already have? Maybe you are really good at a subject of uh of of math or chemistry or physics. Go and tell. Is there anybody in your class that struggles with that? Sow the seed of helping them out. What about you are in the workplace and you are a barista? Learn to make that latte art a little better. Why? Because you are being fruitful. It matters to be. It's cool. How dude, how many people come, how many people have a smile on their face first thing in the morning because of a little good morning? How are you doing from the barista? The little art from the barista. Dude you're a barista. You have no idea how important your job matters. You got to be fruitful with what the Lord has been putting in your hands. Meaning, whatever seed you got, sow it. Sow the seeds. You have something? I I I think you're on, brother. I do. I think you are saying some stuff that is running, that is just sparking thought after thought. I I don't want to, I don't want to um I don't want to divert the conversation. There's one more thing that you want to talk about. Dominion and subduing. The same. That's the same. Yes. But yes, dominion and subduing. Yes, yes. What was that? What was your thought? Keep going. Okay. Yes, keep going. Keep going. All right. Relationship restored with God and people. Purpose number one. Purpose number two. Now that your relationship with your father, especially, is your God, our God is restored. Now you can image him. Your character is transformed, right? Uh, number three, now your character is transformed, meaning you are healthy, you are a healthy person, spiritually, emotionally, you are healthy. Now you can sow your seeds because you are healthy. By the way, by the way, as people, we are the ground for the seed of the word. But if we are unhealthy, the seeds that are dropping in our hearts will never germinate. The moment we become healthy, it's like we are healthy soil for the seeds that are gonna come into us and will germinate, and now we can bear fruit by doing what? By sowing seeds into other types of grounds, right? By the way, really quick going back to the fruitful. What about your energy? Are you being fruitful with your energy? How are you maximizing your energy? Or are you going to bed at two in the morning every day? And you know what I'm saying? Like, or staying staying in bed until 10 a.m. Get it together, maximize your energy. What about your money, dude? Like, are you uh people give Dave Ramsey a hard time? And I understand, like, how can I mean we need to build credit, we need we we need a card, uh like we need a credit card. People give Dave Ramsey a bad time because a hard time because he's kind of against all of that. Here's the issue: Dave Ramsey, he's speaking to the average American that cannot manage debt to save their lives, cannot have a credit card because everybody's impulsive buyers, they cannot be fruitful with their money. How much money do you make? Did if you live with your parents right now, like you let's like let's say you're in high school, you're a freshman in college, like you live with your parents. Why the heck are you spending half of half of your paycheck? Oh, sorry, even half of your paycheck, actually. My first thought was like, How the heck are you spending 100% of your paycheck buying nonsense to impress people you don't even care about? But if you don't have to pay rent, why are you even spending half of your paycheck if you don't need to? Just to buy stuff, be fruitful with your money, start investing your money now. Learn how to be be proactive with all the resources that God has given you from money to energy to emotions to you to people to relationships to assignments to everything. Be fruitful, multiply, be wise. And the final one, number four, subdue the earth. The funny thing about the interesting thing about subdues I will break that down into two parts. The word subdued, uh understanding number one of subdue the world of subduing the world is that the word. The word subduing is not a passive word, it's a very active war style battling type of uh uh uh let's exercise dominion, let's let's take things into uh uh uh uh captivity, let's uh subject things in the world. My question is why did God command the human beings to subdue if there was nothing to be subdued? Did you know that one of the first one of the main things that mankind was supposed to be one of the first one like one of the main things that mankind was supposed to subdue in on the on the earth at that time before sin was the serpent itself. The serpent was supposed to have been subdued, but because they didn't crush the head of the enemy, now he came to crash their head. That's why God needed to raise another human being, himself taking flesh upon himself in order to restore the mess that we were made to solve. God, one of the reasons God created mankind was to crash the head of the enemy. Paul quotes that again, Romans 16:19, 19 and 20. Soon the God of peace will crash the head of the enemy under your feet, the church. Why? Because it was the mission all along that we failed. He raises, he comes himself, the eternal begotten Son of God, takes flesh upon himself to do what we were never made, we were never we were never able to do, but we're made to. We didn't, but the call was you're gonna go around by the way, the feeling the earth and subduing it. What does feeling the earth mean? Every square, every square inch of this earth must be taken, must be even violently so against spiritual force of darkness. Let's take every square inch of this earth starting from the temple. That's why where does God where does Jesus give the great commission? In a mountain. Where does God place mankind? In the temple-like garden. So the borders of the temple could expand until all the earth is filled with the glory of God. Fill the earth. How? By producing more human beings, by producing more systems, more people, more more uh uh uh products, more services that could fill the earth with God's good culture, which takes us to the second definition of the word subdue, which is to create culture. What is culture? Culture is the combination of habits, uh uh of habits and thoughts and liturgies of human beings in order to create belonging, in order to preserve history, in order to create a shared vision of the future. That's culture. And in God's mind, human beings were supposed to have their culture established in the dwelling place of his presence. That was the garden. So now you understand what a godlike culture is. Now go and fill the earth with that culture. That's why in the book of in the letter of Ephesians, Paul to the Ephesians, he says, We are seated with Christ in heavenly place. It's not that we will be seated, we are sitting in the present. We are right now, it's like we are it's like we are Adam and Eve in the garden ministering to Yahweh, and at the same time subduing the earth. We are sitting with Christ in heavenly places, and at the same time living life on this earth by doing what? By being fruitful, by multiplying, by creating good culture, by being a great barista, a great plumber, a great student by being faithful with our assignments, by being faithful, with our role as husbands and wives, and fathers and mothers and sons and daughters and pastors and people that are that are learning in church and people that are college students and everywhere we are, we are filling the earth with his beautiful and glorious culture into the whole thing is filled, into the kingdoms of this world, becomes the kingdom of our Lord and Savior. That's it. Fourfold relationship, character, be fruitful, multiply, and subdue the earth. Okay, wow, that's a lot. That's so that there my mind I got a massive smile on my face, Lucas. I I love seeing your passion, I love seeing your excitement. So much of your what you're saying is sparking so many different thoughts running through my mind. I'm gonna take a deep breath and I'm gonna ask you I think two questions. One with as we come to a close of this episode, because I think that perfectly summarizes part one and gives you the time in this part two to wrap everything into one idea. I would try to say in the next, you know, two to three minutes, communicate that one idea that you'd like to. I mean, you just did, you know, so I'm saying, like, if there's uh a lasting words that you would like to add, and then I would also love to throw out to you, because obviously this is a continual conversation, you know, you are laying the foundation that and you're just building it on top of this conversation after conversation. So I would love to have one summarizing thought to summarize part maybe all four episodes up to now, or the last part one and part two of the three and four. And then I also love to hear you kind of cue up what you kind of where you want to go for episode five. I love that, man. Okay, great. Uh let me summarize the past four episodes to all of y'all. The first episode was very you it was it was an introduction to everything we're gonna be talking about, which is this intersection, this tension that I sit on, which is the I mean the problem is very much caused by this dualistic and pagan mentality, when the the spiritual realm it's disconnected from the material, meaning some people think that the job of ministers will be in a higher category because it's spiritual things. And if you are a barista or an engineer or a plumber, oh well you weren't you are a second category, right? Because you are not in the church. That's a that's a problem. We are all sons and daughters of God, and we are all priests of God. Yeah, and by priest it means we we understand that the whole earth is God's dwelling place, and our job is to our job is to is to perceive the excellences and beauty and wisdom of God and to mitigate or to uh uh uh manage, if you will, the blessings of God to the world as his priests, despite the profession. In every profession that you are, we are called to create good culture because we are priests of God. Episode two, we went deep into theology of work. And my main and please go back to episode two especially. One of the main things that I truly believe in, because it's true, is that a theology of work is a theology of worship. The first time the word worship comes, comes, pops up in the Bible, it's translated as work. Genesis 2, 15. Number three was the episode before this one. Episode three was the episode before this one, and we started talking about purpose, uh, purpose calling, which we needed to do a part two, which was this one. Uh, thank you for listening to us this whole time. It was it it's been great, but now it's my ready in my mind what we're gonna talk about in the next episode, which is the call of Abraham, and that matters because the call of Abraham is starts is is the restoration story. Mankind failed. Now God raises a human being and tells him that hey, the seeds that I wanted mankind to plant and they failed, I'm planting those seeds in you. And now there's something that you're gonna begin that will culminate in this into this beautiful story of restoration. We're gonna talk about that next episode. I love it, Lucas. Uh I'll just say this before um I'll invite you, give you your position of close and prayer. But I'm sitting here, 29 years young, no wife, no kids, just started this youth pastor role, haven't gone to PBC and gotten that degree, haven't gone to Western Seminary, and so conversations like this, you have no idea how much they mean to me. I soak up so much wisdom and it it really the well that's inside of you, where all this is coming from, it it fills a gap that exists within me, and I bring it before the Lord, and it's like I I feel like I get just I feel like I'm getting downloaded information, you know. So I I just I can imagine I'm just one of many people who are listening, and I would encourage, like Lucas had mentioned before, subscribe and comment, yeah, and share, please. You know, this if we're talking about being fruitful and being and multiplying, that's it, just a practical step to do that. So feel free to end it in prayer, but I'm just grateful for you. That's it. Thank you for saying that. That's that's that's cool. I appreciate you. Uh appreciate the markets too, appreciate the work you guys are doing. Uh, these are seeds are going to find fruitful soils into people's hearts. So let's pray. Lord, thank you for today's episode. Thank you for everything that you are doing in our lives, in the lives of every listener. We ask you to allow the good seed of your word to bear fruit, to germinate and bear fruit. And every fruit that comes from you is eternal fruit. So we bless everybody listening to this episode. In your name we pray. Amen. Amen. Thank you so much for today's episode for being with us, hanging out with us, even though I wish we were in a coffee shop having a conversation. I was looking at your face. But it's a good time, and I'm I believe that soon we're gonna be able to do something like that. That is something we can put out there. What about that? Thanks, guys. Have a good one.